Welcome to the NOT-QUITE final 'Round the Fire Pit': a Round Table Discussion of Wynonna Earp for season 4B.
See, we had a LOT to say! Like, a LOT.
So this week's 'Round the Fire Pit is being broken into two parts. This first part is six questions, and the next part will also be six questions. So if we didn't touch on something in this half, check back in a few days with the second part goes up.
As always, we cannot thank our Pit Crew that has been here from the start for their amazing thoughts. Laura is also joining us again this week!
This week around the table we have:
Earpnado (@earpnado)
Docstache (@HollidasStache)
Lynn (@lynn_rachels)
Office (@nedleysoffice)
Jody (@TheGoodJody)
Lindsey (@xfbard)
Laura (@usuttontorwort) -- thanks for joining us this week, Laura!!!
IN ADDITION, we opened up one question (question #3 regarding the proposal scene) to all Earpers. We've picked four answers to include that we really enjoyed! Thanks to all those that sent in answers for that! We may do it again for part two.
But, without further ado...
1. Wynonna and Rosita worked their issues out in the Sinister Sister's Fight Club and by the end of the episode seemed to have buried the hatchet. How do you feel about Rosita being offered a redemption story and Wynonna finding forgiveness for the woman who tried to steal Alice?
Docstache – I'm glad Rosita got her redemption. I love Rosita. Always have. Would love to see more of her. She brings something to the show that no one else does. A fire of some sort. I'm happy to see Wynonna forgave Rosita, but Im wondering how she can forgive a revenant who was going to kill her and steal Alice, yet she murdered Holt who hadn't even done anything.
Lindsey – I'm going to be honest here and say that before this episode I wasn't really interested in a Rosita redemption arc. My feelings were that there is no way that someone could come back and earn forgiveness after they tried to steal a baby. To me that is the ultimate evil act, no matter what drove someone to that point. And yes, I know that Wynonna was pretty crappy to her what with the "I'll kill you last" thing and offering her up to test the widow anti-venom, but that one moment, when she snatched Alice and smashed Waverly's face on the pool table, yeah, I was done. The bridge was on fire and there was probably no hope of any of it being salvaged. My feelings were that not everyone can be saved and I moved on. That being said, after this week I have to say that I am satisfied with the current status of Rosita's story line.
I feel like Wynonna had an even wider gap to jump than I did. And while it seemed to me that at the beginning of the episode Wynonna was still harboring a lot of ill will as the episode went along I watched as Wynonna's animosity toward her started to fade a bit and a grudging respect for her longevity and toughness took its place. And as I thought about it I found that I was ok with that. Total honesty here, the sheer enjoyment I got out of the fight club and their witty banter definitely helped.
What caused Wynonna's change of heart? I don’t know. Maybe she saw a bit of herself in Rosita. They are both women who have been bound by circumstance. They each have had to scrap and claw and fight their way through the world. Maybe she realized that yeah, Rosita made a mistake, a BAD one, but that she too has made many a mistake in her lifetime. Or maybe it is as simple as not continuing the "women betraying women" cycle.
Personally, I may never totally warm up to Rosita, but I can say that if she were to appear in a future episode I won't be upset about it. And as for Wynonna, hey, if she can forgive Rosita, I can at least admit that I am ok with her riding out her eternity in a sanctuary full of potentially frisky nuns.
Lynn – I was all for a Rosita redemption arc! Rosita and Wynonna are more alike than they care to admit. Both are smart, resourceful, brave, and a survivor. I feel Wynonna delivered a "kick in the chest" (pun intended) to Rosita back in Season 2 when she told her to go be a Guinea pig to save Nicole and she would kill her last. Such disappointment and hurt in Rosita's face that this person she had grown to care for, threw her under the bus. "Hell, hath no fury like a woman scorned", in this case by someone Rosita felt was her friend. As they say, revenge is a dish best served cold and stealing Alice was the perfect revenge. Except, I honestly think Rosita was relieved when her plan didn't work! *Note: Peacemaker chose not to kill her. In Holy War Part 2, Rosita comes clean and is completely honest with Wynonna. This in turn, allows Wynonna the opportunity, which she takes, to forgive Rosita and move forward. A truce that both women greatly need! I also think it was the final test for Wynonna to prove to Peacemaker that she was able to forgive, but also committed to fighting demons in the GRT!
Jody – Rosita's redemption story makes complete sense to me. Like Wynonna, Rosita didn't decide her fate. One day she was just hanging out near some local watering hole when Wyatt Earp came to town, and then poof, she became a revenant. And like Wynonna, when sh*t hits the fan, you do what you need to survive!
Regarding Wynonna's forgiveness, also, not really a surprise. Wynonna has always tried to see the best in people (as long as there is something good to see). And she can relate to Rosita. They are both strong, intelligent women who were forced into their situation and doing everything in their power to survive.
Laura – Super psyched to have Rosita back! I mean if ever there was a character that got the short end of the stick and then had to pay for over a hundred years for it, it's Rosita. She's the full package and yet everyone has only ever looked at her as this beautiful barmaid instead of the smart, strong woman that she is so her getting to come back was wonderful. Was she an asshole for trying to steal Alice? Of course. Have any of our beloved characters ever been assholes or made assholley decisions? Duh! Therefore, while I may have been mad at Rosita for attempting it I still love her for the messed up person that she is. And really I don't think this is the end of Rosita's story either. Is it a redemption arc with a happier ending for Rosita? Yes it is. And she's now an ally in a place that will keep people safe from demons and monsters, surely that will be useful to our merry band of assholes in the future. Will I keep asking questions like this in the middle of my chat?....
Earpnado – The Wynonna-insulting-Rosita-while-passively-hitting-on-her schtick was one of my favorite things about the episode. I honestly can't even comment much about what happened with their storyline b/c every time Wynonna said something hot about Rosita my brain refused to allow in any other English words for a few seconds. As a side note, I do love that this show has such high stakes but also sometimes deals are made over pinky swears.
Office – So, yeah, I'm not sure how I feel about that? Happy for Rosita, I think, because I don't think she deserved a lifetime in hell or purgatory (small p) for what she did under the circumstances. But perhaps eternity with a bunch of thirsty nuns is a little too good a fate? Ultimately, it was a two-stage process for Wynonna and I'm not sure forgiveness of Rosita was the end state. Afterall, Wynonna did end up serving Rosita up to the nuns and didn't care what they would do with her in exchange for Peacemaker. It wasn't until Rosita pointed out mid-grappling that the powers-that-be are always pitting women against each other that Wynonna seemed to have second thoughts. Also, I do think it's fitting that she didn't give Rosita a hug when they parted; there's only so far a mother can be expected to go. But, as I said at the top, Rosita didn't deserve to spend eternity in hell (or wherever the revenents went), so I think this was a good ending(?) to her story.
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2. Wynonna shooting Holt seemed to be a bridge to far for Doc, who appears intent on continuing his road to redemption. WynDoc seem farther apart than ever going into the hiatus. Do you think these two can once again find common ground and come back to fighting on the same side?
Docstache – Buckle up, cause I got a whole lot of feeling to get off my chest!
I don't think they are fighting on different sides now. I think despite everything that happened, Doc will always be on her side. I think the real question is will they ever find peace with each other to make WynDoc work?
Wynonna went against the western code of never shooting a man in the back...a rule that is very important to Doc. My problem is not with her killing Holt, as while I don't agree with it, can understand why she did it. But it's the how she did it. I literally sat up and gasped when she took that shot and exclaimed "What the fuck, Wynonna?!" I also feel like Peacemaker is more of a character now. And with the shady stuff we learned about Wyatt this season, maybe it has a magical power over Wyn when she has it. An evil power.
Wynonna has always struggled with who she is in this world. She has expressed that she feels unimportant. So she gets Peacemaker back, and goes after Margo only to learn Waverly has taken care of it. Then Doc talks Holt down from the ledge, so again it's taken care of. It's almost like she felt she needed to have a purpose with the Clanton problem and acted without thinking when she shot Holt.
I personally thought telling Doc the Clantons were after Alice was an attempt to rectify the shit that went down on the porch. Rosita said Margo wanted the baby, not "The Clantons." It was quite clear the Clanton kids wanted nothing to do with Margo's vendetta. They often seemed to be kept in the dark, not to mention they were clearly scared of her. They were cursed by being born into the Clanton name, just like Wynonna was with the Earp name. I'm curious to know how Doc felt about her saying "The Clantons" wanted Alice.
Then she used Doc's vulnerabilities against him in that intense, porch scene. She went for the jugular in what seems to be an attempt to deflect. You could see how much that hurt Doc. Doc is trying everything he can to be a better man, and sometimes when you are working on bettering yourself, you have to cut people out of your life to do so. In Doc's case, I don't think that's forever. But I wouldn’t blame him if he needs some time away from her. Id be shocked if there was a "Hey, I'm sorry Doc" and everything was all copasetic.
Wynonna has some serious issues to work through. I don't think she and Doc can have anything romantic until she works through her demons. Hopefully Purgatory has a therapist. And Doc is a work in progress who could naturally have a fear that being around and/or with Wynonna will force him to regress. So I guess it comes down to what is most important to Doc and whether he will choose to lead with his heart or his mind. I really look forward to how all this plays out in 7-12.
Lindsey – Oh boy, this is a big one. That WynDoc conversation on the homestead porch seemed pretty final, didn't it? And when Doc said that he didn't want to be all broken up inside anymore I really felt his pain. What Doc perhaps isn't considering though is that he has had over a century to come to terms with his past, and not so past, nefarious deeds and decisions and arrive at the point where he wants to change. Wynonna, on the other hand, has been living the Earp curse for a far shorter time frame. Dispatching demons and her "enemies" is her daily reality. She often doesn't have the luxury of reflection before she makes a decision. It's kill or be killed. And she is right about one thing, those enemies aren't going to quit coming after her just because she wants them to. And they sure as hell aren't all going to sit down for a drink and a détente to try and settle their differences.
As for the straw that seemed to break the camel's back, the shooting of Holt, I have to admit that I wasn't surprised when Wynonna shot him. In fact my immediate, out loud reaction was "Well, that's what she does." And what I meant by that is that if she sees a threat to her family she takes it out. Period. And as she said herself earlier in the episode, sometimes that means she kills people. Add to that the fact that Wynonna had the benefit of knowing that it was the Clantons that were the buyers for Alice. So there might have been a bit less belief on her part that Holt was willing to bury the hatchet and move on. I think that knowledge puts a whole new perspective on how threatening she believed them to be. Does Doc have a right to be angry with her? Sure, but just because he is ready to live a life a peace doesn’t mean that Wynonna actually can, even if she wants to.
Look, these two are experts at wounding each other. Doc's insinuation that Wynonna has no honor and Wynonna's continued digging up of his less than choir-boy past shows that. Are both of them justified in their own way? Yeah, they are, but neither seems to be able or willing to see past their own pain and path and to forgive the other for "sins" that they too have committed. Neither of them have an untrampled high road to travel. And yet they have this tether to each other, something that keeps them coming back over and over only to repeat this cycle. It's frustrating and heart breaking at the same time.
Does this mean that I think it's nothing but dark times ahead for WynDoc? No. I certainly believe that they are both in a whole mess of pain at the moment, but I do believe that eventually they will find a way back to each other. I think the road is going to be rocky, and that they both are going to have to make compromises and quit taking out all their personal guilt on each other, but they will find a comfort level that is right for them. It's obvious that they care deeply about each other (despite the fact that neither of them can readily admit just how much), now it's just a matter of whether or not they can rediscover some common ground. I really hope that they do.
Lynn – I can understand Doc wanting redemption after all he has done, but the GRT is still crawling with demons of all types, so it just seems like now it not the best time to work on that. How can he protect his family if he is unwilling to fight? Does he really think the demons are going to play nice and sit down to talk about it over a drink? Wynonna doesn't have the luxury of taking a break until order is restored in Purgatory. She needs to be able to trust Doc to have her back and kill if necessary. There is still evil lurking behind every Murdertree! I am not sure, and neither is Wynonna, that Can be trusted right now! I will always be #TeamDoc, so I have my fingers crossed that things will work out and they will be able to fight again on the same team!
Jody – HOW. DARE. YOU. What the hell kind of question is this???? Of course they will find common ground! It just may take a little time, many bottles of whiskey, and creepily, drunkenly singing in a forest before that happens.
Laura – Has WynDoc ever been on common ground except both feeling the sexual electricity between them? In the beginning, Doc had his own agenda with the witch Clootie of which Wynonna knew nothing about until well into their budding relationship. And when Wynonna did know the whole story she still disagreed with how Doc wanted to handle things and try to get full info about the Earp curse. They definitely weren't on common ground when Wynonna wanted to have Doc's/Bulshar's ring and destroy it knowing that it would mean Doc would be fully human again. And what common ground was there when Doc decided to have Kate turn him? I digress. There are two things that Doc and Wynonna are 100% on track with and that's protecting their found family and being the best version of themselves they can. Right now, it means Doc is feeling that not being caught up in so much violence is the way and Wynonna is not seeing the world in as quite a black & white view as Doc. I don't think they're necessarily fighting on different sides, at least not yet, but really just trying to fight in different ways. And there are so many more questions this storyline brings up than answers it provides, and I am looking forward to seeing how it plays out to both in the second half of season four.
Earpnado – I think they always find their way back to each other. They may disagree about it now, but they really are the same on some level. Both have had some semblance of choice vs destiny affect their lives, but they're crashing through all of that at different paces. Makes sense, age gaps in any relationship require some attention and care, so a 100+ year age gap is probably gonna have its kinks. I said what I said.
Office – I'm going to deal with Wynonna shooting Holt in question 6 because I have a lot to say about that. But, as for WynDoc... it's like WayHaught are soulmates destined to be together for eternity in every universe and WynDoc are soulmates destined to never be together in any universe, and I can't help but ache for them because of that. I was going to type, 'they're so in love...' but then I thought, I'm not sure that they are in love, not in the traditional sense. But they belong together and share something more in Alice. I can understand why Doc is upset with Wynonna, but I also think he could be a little more understanding seeing as he's been where she is. I do think they will come to an understanding; I don't see Doc walking away from this family he has or walking away from Wynonna. But it feels like it's always going to be a painful road for them.
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3. So we got a proper WayHaught proposal and a definitive answer (with so many other things going on in the room). Thoughts on that scene?
Docstache – First off, props to Doc for putting his heartbreak aside to come in and be there. And OMG, when he took the hat off. The proposal was perfect. I think my favorite part were the adorable smiles on their faces and the tears in their eyes that as result made them sparkle. I'm happy all the Wayhaughters got this incredible moment too. I could feel the joy oozing from Twitter on Sunday night. I think I'd be more excited if there wasn't that underlying pain and glance exchanges between WynDoc. It was hard to stay focused on Wayhaught, but also I'm Docstache so this probably isn't a surprise. I do hope that if there is a surname change that they stick with Haught.
Lindsey – Can I just submit an answer that is all heart emojis?? No? Ok, fine, I will talk about my FEELINGS!! I will start by saying that I am just going to address the WayHaught proposal, and not anything else that was going on in that PACKED scene, because frankly my heart just wants to be happy for one freaking minute.
First of all, I am insanely happy that Nicole is back amongst the land of the living, because you can't have a proposal if your girlfriend is dead. Second, it is my hope that maybe some of that Nicole angst that I have been carrying around for the past six weeks can finally abate. Ok, on to the warm fuzzies...
This moment has been a long time coming. In Earp time WayHaught has been together for a couple years (one more for Nicole than Waverly, but I digress). And yeah, those years have been FRAUGHT, but through it all we have watched this love story evolve in the most beautiful and real way. And this proposal was really just the culmination of the first part of their journey. Whenever I contemplated a WayHaught proposal (which I did once, ok maybe once a day) I do have to admit that I always envisioned Nicole as the one doing the asking. Even after Waverly’s unanswered attempt at the end of season three. I don't know why, that was just always my head cannon. So to see Nicole yield that moment, to allow Waverly to be the one who actually did the asking was a bit of a surprise. A GOOD surprise, but a surprise none the less. I think after everything that has transpired that it was very important for Waverly to be the one doing the asking. To show Nicole that despite what she had done, the deal that she had made, that Waverly does still love her. And does still want to spend the rest of their lives together. And perhaps Nicole needed to feel that just as much as Waverly needed to show it.
As I was watching that moment unfold, and it became apparent that THIS WAS IT I felt like everything around me got really quiet. I sat up, leaned forward in my chair, and was like "Oh, are they finally going to do this?" I am pretty sure my heart rate was as high as it would have been if *I* was the one getting engaged. And when Nicole said yes, after that little "hmmm," a deep breath, and that oh SO Nicole and SO adorable head tilt that she does....sigh...yeah, I was super happy. I may have shed a tear. Maybe. It made all the angst I had been feeling in prior episodes worth it, because in the end all I really want is Nicole Haught to be happy (and safe and not a frog and not dead). And in that moment you could see that she is HAPPY. I felt that, deeply. It was like the two of them finally took a deep breath after far too long underwater (no tub reference intended). I believe that they have both known for a long time that if their world allowed, they would make it to this moment and now they were finally there. It was beautiful to behold. The emotion, the setting, the fire behind them. All of it was just SO GOOD. And so earned. And I look forward to the shenanigans that come along with planning a WayHaught wedding and actually getting these two to the altar.
WayHaught means so much to so many people. And I could go on and on about representation and seeing yourself reflected in the characters you love, but I won’t. I will simply say that there will never be a time where I don't remember just how happy and content this scene made me feel. I think that says it all, right?
Lynn – I absolutely loved the scene, except my heart was breaking for Wynonna and her tear-stained face. I know part of it was she was happy for Waverly, but most of it was because Doc was letting her down. Little drunk Jeremy was so cute, and he just asked the questions all the Earpers were thinking. He moved the process along in his own way! It was time! Having Nicole and Waverly surrounded by their found family during this special moment was priceless! Doc taking off his hat, all eyes on WayHaught, Nicole starting and then allowing Waverly a redo, the nod and smile of approval from Wynonna, the beautiful smiles and love-sick eyes, the final yeses, the kiss, and "I love you", made it so incredibly touching and wonderful! So, so great!
Jody – BORING. Who wants to see that???? OK, truth - it was beautiful. So romantic, sweet and beautifully shot. Nicole and Waverly have had a hell of a week (or 18 months +, depending on who you are asking). They can no longer wait to fully commit to each other and need to say it aloud in front of their loved ones (FYI, saying things out loud matters!). Also, I love that they were surrounded by their family.
Although that scene was beautiful and was everything we hoped for, the person I couldn't take my eyes off of was Wynonna/Mel. Mel stole that scene – she was incredible. Her ability to convey multiple emotions at the same time is truly remarkable. When I rewatched it (and I watched that scene multiple times), I kept going back to the look Waverly gives Wynonna and the nod Wynonna gives back to Waverly. The happiness Wynonna feels for her sister along with the heartbreak she feels in knowing she and Doc are not on the same page – I do not know how she does it. She makes me feel everything.
The rest of the family – they deserve some mention as well. Nedley as a proud papa was adorable. Rachel desperately wanting alcohol was so perfect, and her happiness for the couple shining through (also, can we talk about her shirt being a shout out to the NY Earpers!! Felt pretty freaking special to see that and read Emily's post that it was an intentional prop! [Office note: totally agree]). Doc was so heartbreaking as well and Tim absolutely deserves kudos for this portrayal. His love for this found family was so apparent, but also his sadness. I can't seem to find the right words to convey what I was seeing in his performance because there were so many feelings. And lastly, Jeremy...let's chat about Jeremy for a minute or two...I wonder about him. His actions of late seem to be just a little bit inconsistent with his character and I am left wondering, is it possible he is Eve? Or have they just changed the writing style a little????
Laura – Well....LFDKJGALFKJGALFJGD. That's pretty much where I was when I first saw the scene. By the second, third, and fiftieth viewing I just simply smile and cry but there is actual English coming out of my mouth. So many firsts with this show and how can we be so damn lucky with everyone who has helped bring all those firsts to our TVs. It was as most 'heavy' scenes on the show done subtlety, with the perfect lighting and just the right words. Let's also talk about the arc of Wayhaught. First, Waverly has always been a follower. Follows the Earp curse, the Earp heir, and whatever others around her have felt were priorities. Over the last few years, and I do think not only with Nicole and Wynonns's help but the rest of the family, she has become a leader and someone others look up to. She is now the strongest person. Yes, Wynonna is still the Earp heir and has Peacemaker to clean Purgatory of demons and monsters. But at the end of the day, things start and end with Waverly and she's the biggest reason people are able to go further, fight harder, and win out above all the shit in the world. Nicole is definitely a big reason as to how Waverly was able to grow by giving her the room, support, and love needed for Wavelry to do so. It took a big leap for Waverly to take a chance and grab Nicole, kissing her back in season 1. I'm getting back to the proposal scene, I promise. Nicole has always known who she was and how she mattered in life, knew where her place was especially as a protector. The last two years have turned her on her head while Waverly has become stronger and more assured. They're both really growing with each other, each taking a bit that they didn't have before. Waverly needed to gain the strength and come into her own while Nicole needed to have a little balance in her life, and maybe realize she's not the only one who can protect the other in a relationship. So when the proposal came, not only was it the perfect time for them to both fully pronounce their love but also become engaged, it's the perfect way of showing how far they've come as people. Nicole was going to propose but Waverly even asked and with her crane of the neck that she's so good at, Nicole willingly let Waverly take the lead. They both needed that and god was that scene framed perfectly. The tears in Waverly's eyes and Nicole’s voice breaking. And having their family around them, sharing in their happiness and love, plus that briefest of Earp sisters' moments. Does TV get any better than this?! They finally had the time to take their time in the proposal and pronounce their love. In all the craziness before, and yet to come, it was the best way to end the episode.
Earpnado – I loved the juxtaposition of the seriousness of the moment and Jeremy's rambling/Nedley laughing at him, Rachel trying to sneak a drink (c'mon Uncle Jeremy, don't be such a narc), and tension between Wynonna and Doc. It's further proof of my theory that the Wynonna Earp Writers are secretly being paid as government agents conducting a study to see if humans can feel every emotion at one time...and so far they're earning every penny. It was just a beautifully written, acted, and produced scene. It felt like every character was finally back and it was time. It's like we've had 3.5 seasons of foreplay with the only-one-of-them-ever-says-I-love-you-at-a-time and the moment finally...came. A climax worth the wait.
Office – Oh, so many thoughts!!! The two of them being glued to each other from the start and the hilariousness that while it was Nicole recovering from severe hypothermia, she took the blanket from her lap and put it around WAVERLY's shoulders – because of course she did! Then both of them having planned something to Nicole letting Waverly do it – because of course she did! Waverly giving Wynonna one last look for approval/encouragement/connection and getting it – because of course she would get it! Then the question and the answer and the tears in Waverly's eyes and the smiles that could power a small city and then not being able to let go of each other or even part by an inch. To them finally saying I love you to each other for the first time we've seen. UGH. PERFECTION. And doing it in front of the homestead fireplace, surrounded by all those that love them, Doc taking his hat off, their surrogate dad in Nedley giving a relieved, FINALLY! And, of course, the backdrop of tension between Wynonna and Doc; their emotional pain in such stark contrast to the pure joy of Waverly and Nicole. And it was pure joy for them. And for WayHaught fans. When the episode ended, I tweeted that the proposal made me feel at peace. And I think that's still the emotion, just a feeling of contentment and peace. *le happy sigh*
Chloe – I looooved the scene. I thought that it was beautifully lit, beautifully shot, and the music was well chosen. I enjoyed the juxtaposition of the current wayhaught and wyndoc relationships where as one approaches a concrete union the other might never be the same. The emphasis of being there for your family was well represented as Doc and Wynonna didn't try to take away from the special moment between Wayhaught. And that same look for approval from Waverly to Wynonna was a perfect callback. And finally ensuring that Waverly was the one to propose again showed us her growth as a character from early seasons. And allowed Nicole to know that the first time wasn't just a rush decision nor was Waverly going to stop loving Nicole over a mistake she made. The overall feeling from the scene is absolute happiness while also having the bittersweet dramatic irony that the audience knows of. It was wonderful. I defo cried.
Anna – Melanie Scrofano's acting was amazing. She was all I could focus on in that scene. The way she conveyed pure heartbreak from the previous scene with Doc yet such joy and pride for her baby sister all at once truly amazed me. I think her scene with Doc outside and the engagement scene are now part of my top 5 Wynonna scenes because of Melanie's talent. In regards to Dom and Kat, I have never seen Waverly smile like that. Such pure happiness. I never realized that we hadn’t seen her in her happiest state until that scene. That smile just made the entire scene feel so genuine.
Kate (@KRKacs) – Here's my reaction to the WayHaught proposal. It felt like the visual embodiment of the perfect moment - the fireplace, surrounded by a chosen family that love and support them, the song choice (fantastic) and two characters so in love, who see each other so so clearly. For me, it was different from many other WayHaught scenes because it was absolutely grounded in a level of certainty and purpose where both Waverly and Nicole are beyond sure of what they want and where they are going together. At times in the past, there have been small things here and there over the course of their character arcs and the growth of their relationship where, as a viewer, you have an idea in the back of your mind that they are both all in but something isnt quite there to put them on the same page. There was none of that at the end of 4.06.
It made me so happy to watch that scene without there being other stakes attached to it. I can't remember the last time, if ever, any Wynonna scene or end of an episode didn't feel like things were balanced on a knife's edge. To do it as the end of the midseason finale, the last thing viewers will see for who knows how long (January 2021, please?), showed how significant the writers know it was. Again, it was just so grounded and pure and honest - taking away the life and death circumstances the characters always face to give Waverly and Nicole (and the fans) that moment was very very special. Sure, it was a direct contrast to WynDoc and the pain there, but that didn't detract from the moment in the slightest. It's quite possible that it may have added to it the way the two relationships are moving in such opposite directions.
That whole scene makes me so happy, almost a week later, any time it pops on my timeline I have to watch it from start to finish. On a Zoom call for work, doesn't matter bitches, I'm watching the WayHaught proposal again.
K D – Wow, there is just so much going on in this scene. The juxtaposition of WayHaught joy with WynDoc angst was brilliant (Melanie Scrofano's face speaks more than any line could yet again), but the proposal itself was next level to me. It brings Nicole and Waverly’s relationship full circle in so many ways. The parallels to season one were undeniable. In season one, on Nedley's couch, a nervous and unsure Waverly admits her feelings as well as her fears about exploring a relationship with Nicole. In that moment, Nicole gives her a look (we all know the one) that reassures Waverly and helps her push through those fears. In this scene, it’s Nicole who is nervous as she begins her proposal, perhaps with the still nagging thought that Waverly might not want to marry her after what she had done. But when Waverly says, "Please, let me.", we see a look from Nicole that calls back to that look in season one, but there is something different about it this time. In this look, there is a recognition and an admiration of the confidence, strength, and love that Waverly now possesses. She knows what she wants, and it’s a life with Nicole. Then we see the last of Nicole’s anxiety melt away.
Waverly's look to Wynonna before popping the question (did I mention Melanie Scrofano's face?), and Doc removing his hat hit me right in the feels. While I must admit I hated the fact that Wynonna could not fully enjoy witnessing her baby sister proposing to her best friend, I also realize the angst makes the story richer. Add to all of this the fire in the background, the brilliant lighting, a forehead touch, a nose smoosh, and yet another perfect song from Andrea Higgins, and I don't know how this scene could be any better. It's another gift in a season of gifts.
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4. We have now seen Waverly use her powers a few times, all of which were under highly fraught circumstances. And even she admits that she doesn't really know what triggers or is happening with her and them. This time she killed Margot (and seemed a little stunned afterwards). What's your take on Waverly taking out Mam Clanton and/or her 'powers' in general?
Docstache – Well as a power in general, it's pretty freakin rad. I'd even be more fearful of her than Wynonna at this point. I do think she needs to spend some time researching this power and find a way to harness her power. If she doesn't, she is going to end up doing something she really regrets.
Lindsey – I think Waverly was completely justified in taking out Margot. Everything we knew about her indicated that she wasn't going to rest without completely destroying the Earps. She had already put a hit out on Wynonna, made Billy a reaper, hexed Nicole, was trying to destroy Doc, and was actively fighting to kill Waverly. That seems pretty hell-bent to me. Like Wynonna, Waverly protects those that she loves, and I believe that the threat on Nicole's life was the driving force that led her to take the actions that she did.
Waverly's powers are certainly mysterious. For a while we attributed them to Bulshar/Julian's ring, but what if that was never the case, what if that ring was simply the catalyst to unleashing her powers? If we think back to all the times that she has used them they have all been emotional situations. And not all of them have been bad. I mean she did fix Mercedes face. Sure she melted creepy Derek the jeweler's face, tossed Constance Clootie across a barn, took out Bobo, and zapped Doc in the garden, but hey, wouldn't you have done all of those things if you had the power to? It's not like she's out there just zapping anyone and everyone who may annoy her. I still think there is a lot we don't know about what being a half-angel entails for Waverly. Specifically what kind of angel she is. A guardian, sure, but what does that REALLY MEAN?! There does seem to be a bit of a dark aspect to her from time to time. Does that stem from a traumatic past or is it simply a manifestation of her angelic blood line? We don't know. I do hope that we get some answers to that question in 4B, especially if we are going to have to deal with Eve again, which I think we will. I think Waverly will ultimately play a big part in that battle and maybe, hopefully, we will find out a bit more about her in the process.
Lynn – The mysterious powers of Waverly still leave me scratching my head. The power comes at dire moments mixed with anger and purpose! Waverly was protecting Wynonna when she killed the Revenant at Mercedes' house, killed Bobo because he killed her father, and now Mam Clanton because she needed to save Nicole. It's almost like Waverly goes into a Superhero's trance, does what is needed, and comes back out a little disoriented. It's basically a Guardian Angel vs the devil wrapped in different bodies! As for killing Mam Clanton, it was the only thing she could possibly do to save Nicole!
Jody – I say this at least once each week. I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IS GOING ON! Is it possible that Waverly is the Angel of Death? I thought this was a good theory but just looked up Angel of Death on the interwebs and it doesn't click...so, I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IS GOING ON!
Regarding Waverly killing Mam, I do find it interesting that both Wynonna and Waverly have killed a Clanton. Cleo is still around, with an army of reapers ready to continue the fight. I can't wait to see what the second half of the season has in store for us!
Laura – I think eventually Waverly, like in most things in her life, will figure out what her powers mean and how to use them better. Obviously she's using them already but she's not fully aware of what all she can do, hell neither are we right now. But she knows she has great power and while she could use it all the time, in any situation, she only reserves it for the biggest times. I'm noticing it's usually when she gets very angry so while in the episode Waverly says even she doesn't know what happens when she gets really angry, I think deep down she does know. Which is why she doesn't want to be that angry often, if at all. She was scared and angry when radioactive revenant was trying to kill her and Wynonna and Waverly weren't sure how to control the powers. But boom! She killed ugly rev. She was hurt and very angry when Bobo killed Julian, boom! She kills Bobo with her hands. She wasn't angry in the Garden when Doc was trying to get her away from Eve which is why I think she didn't really kill Doc, just knocked him out. But move to Nicole being tied to the Mam Clanton because of the devil's deal made and it was going to probably end in Nicole's death, BIG BOOM! Margot Jean is Gone Girl! I know it impacted Waverly even more for a couple of reasons, one being that Waverly is the goodest good. So killing anything especially by her own hands just hurts her heart, even if it was to save her love. But also Margot is the first real person she's killed, not demon or monster. Although a strong argument could be made that Mam was definitely powerful and just a stone-cold bitch (poor Billy), and I think was always going to end up dying by the sword as it were, she was still only human. And that's going to haunt Waverly. Remember what I said about Waverly being the strongest one...just saying.
Earpnado – I was thrown off by her not being sure why she did it. Her motivation seemed pretty clear to me, and I don't mean to be judge, jury, and executioner but it does seem that Mam AKA Margo AKA Margo Jean AKA Swamp Witch AKA THIS BITCH (that's what I said every time she came on screen) had it coming. I'm interested to see if there's more to Waverly's powers that we haven't heard about yet, but either way they seem to protect her when she needs it most, so I'm not mad about it.
Office – HOOO BOY (not to be confused with YEAH BOI, which is completely different)! Waverly seemed fairly in control and was almost doing a favor to Bobo when she 'ended' him. And what she did to Doc... that you can almost pass off that she was under the thrall of the Garden and her 'destiny' and not entirely in control. But then couple not just her attack on Mam Clanton but with her utter confusion and seeming memory loss afterwards... I'm not sure what to make of her 'angel powers'. I'm not sure Waverly knows what to make of her 'angel powers'. But I have to say, I have always been bothered by what Julian said after he was revealed to be an angel. He beckoned Waverly to follow him. Waverly was concerned about Doc and asked, "Is he going to die?" Julian's response was, "Come, child, there's no time for petty humanity." Um, excuse me, but 'petty humanity'?!?!? Being an angel sounds like you should be a good guy, but maybe that isn't entirely true. And also, they have been dropping hints for THE ENTIRE SERIES, that Waverly has anger and dark corners that aren't yet explored. It seems entirely possible we're getting ready to explore them. And I has a scared about that. But I also has an excitement about that. I'm glad she'll have Wynonna and Nicole around to help her figure things out.
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5. Peacemaker finally decided that Wynonna was worthy after all, what was it that caused her to reveal herself to Wynonna? Was it the rousing speech or did Peacemaker recognize that perhaps she and the Earp heir still had work to do?
Docstache – I'm confused by Peacemaker. I think it's in tune with what is going on in Wynonna's mind. As we saw in 406, she has some dark stuff going on in her head and as I mentioned earlier, I think Peacemaker has a shady past with Wyatt so maybe it wanted to continue on down that path and can play on Wyn's issues to do so. Another thing I hope we learn more about in the back half of the season.
Lindsey – I think Peacemaker was testing Wynonna. I think that she could feel the self-doubt that Wynonna has been struggling with since she lost the sword-gun at the staircase. I think it was Wynonna finally saying, and believing, that yeah, she is a hero and that heroes have to make tough decisions and that when they get knocked down they have to get back up again that finally convinced the gun to reveal herself. I think that Peacemaker knows that regardless of the fact that the Earp curse has been broken that they both still have work to do. And maybe she also decided that she had rested enough and it was time to get back in the game.
Lynn – I have already touched on this in question 1 about Rosita. Peacemaker was testing Wynonna. Wynonna's steadfastness in finding the Scorned Woman in the picture, securing a truce with Rosita, seeing the Reverend Mother for what she truly was, and professing her continued commitment to fighting evil in the GRT, Peacemaker showed herself. There is still much to do!
Jody – Interesting that you seem to think Peacemaker has a say in her actions!?!?!? I started thinking about this a lot, and after a lot of back and forth with myself, came to the same conclusion. She and Wynonna are clearly connected. Maybe she senses that the garden's gate has been opened and isn't being guarded. He primary function is to protect the garden, or is it to protect those from the garden??? Either way, she has more work to do.
Laura – Neither. I mean yes that speech Wynonna gave in the nunnery's weapons lair was awesome. Especially with the requiem playing and the whole nod to Star Wars. But I don't think Peacemaker is exactly on the up and up. I'm starting to think the whole orange and blue glowing has to do with the morality of the holder. Right now Wynonna is definitely skirting the edges of lack of morality so Peacemaker the sword came to Wynonna with bloodlust too, and naturally turned back into the gun. At the stairs when trying to defend the Garden and prevent Bulshar from letting what's out in...or was he just trying to get back in and stay with what was in there? Nevermind, different question/answer. Anyway, Peacemaker was a sword used for the defense of something good. Ergo, when the gun turns blue this is still Peacemaker's way of knowing that what it's about to do is for defense and trying to bring release versus orange. Orange is Peacemaker's way of saying "let’s just kill 'em all!" Yes, that is a Xena reference. 25 years baby, feels like two lifetimes ago! I think Peacemaker wanted to know where Wynonna's head was and then it was ready to head out and really do more damage. A morally charged weapon is normal, right?
Earpnado – I'm torn about Peacemaker now that Wyatt's character has been called into question. Maybe Peacemaker needed Wynonna to be ready to kill again, maybe it needed to recognize the Earp in her, or maybe it was just time. All I know is that the requiem being sung in the background while Wynonna made her speech made for a pretty badass scene in general. I'm definitely relieved that Peacemaker came back just in time to help Wynonna put down Mother So-Queerier and her possessed band of Sister Mary Lezzeruses. Although I do wish we had gotten a chance to see Melanie Scrofano wield a sword. For science. Or freedom.
Office – Peacemaker, oh Peacemaker. Let me start this by saying my heart skipped a beat when Peacemaker leapt into Wynonna's hand and transformed back into its gun state. Oh, how I had missed it. Peacemaker has always had a mind of its own and has made decisions we didn't always understand (for instance, it let Waverly shoot Rosita, but then shocked Waverly ensuring she would let go of it, not to mention it lights up different colors, ALSO not to mention it has FANTASTIC aim when it wants to – in episode 1 Wynonna couldn't even hit the "Welcome to Purgatory" sign with Peacemaker, but when she needed Peacemaker to save Waverly, she could hit the pully holding Waverly up perfectly enough to have it ricochet from that pully, off the spinning windmill, and then knock the gun out of Ramakar's hand. Peacemaker does what it wants and it's VERY skilled. I LOVE having Peacemaker back, LOVE IT. But, I have no idea what it's thinking, lol. PS I also LOVE that this show has an 'inanimate object' as an integral character in the show.
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6. It seems as though one of the themes of this season is redemption, and who is worthy of finding it. Doc, Rosita, and maybe Holt all seemed to want to try while Wynonna and Waverly are still traveling the path that all Earp heirs before them have walked. What do you think about that?
Docstache – Well I think Haught has some redemption work to do as well. The fact that she was willing to sacrifice Doc to get Waverly & Wyn back deserves to be addressed.
There seems to be this unspoken thing where the main, female characters seem to be able to make mistakes and it's all justifiable, and then Doc messes up (S3) and they treat him like public enemy #1. Additionally, he was vilified by many of the fans. It's a double standard that I don't agree with. They should all be allowed to make mistakes (because they're human), be held accountable, and then find redemption.
Like for instance, Waverly has these new powers and doesn't know her own strength. Doc became a vampire and didn't know his own strength and how he would feel. But he was quick to be dubbed a monster. Both Wynonna and Waverly first need to understand their powers, then learn how to live with them. But as I have said earlier, I think Peacemaker is shady, so this could pose a problem for Wynonna
Lindsey – I don't necessarily feel that Wynonna and Waverly aren't looking for redemption, I just think that they aren't in a position where they have the time to take a step back and really reflect on the paths they are traveling. Like Doc, Roisita has had over a century to think about her life choices. And Holt, well he has spent his lifetime under Margot's thumb and suffering all of her abuse, so maybe that is enough to give him perspective. They have all come to the point where they want to change for what they see as for the better.
I think that when your everyday life is battling one demon or neer-do-well after another you have to live IN that moment. You can't simply hit pause and ask yourself "how will I feel about this decision five minutes, five months, or five years from now?" I do believe that the choices the Earp sisters make do haunt them. They do feel the weight on their shoulders and see how they affect those that they love. We have definitely seen that they haunt Wynonna. And I believe that we will see Waverly struggle with her decision to kill Margo and whether that was the "right" thing.
Everyone finds perspective in their own time and as circumstance allows. And while Doc, Rosita, and Holt seemed to find theirs, the Earp sisters just aren't there yet. They don't have that luxury. I think for them the battle is to keep their family safe and not lose themselves in the process. Can Wynonna kill demons and still live a life that she believes would make Alice proud? Can Waverly walk along side of Nicole and not feel a crushing burden of guilt for choices that have already been made? I guess we will have to wait and see. I do believe that the Earp sisters will find peace, and a path to their own redemption someday. We just may never see it play out on our screens.
Lynn – Probably not a popular opinion, but I couldn't give a hoot about the theme of redemption. I do admit that I am delighted Rosita got the happy ending she deserved. Holt, not crazy about his being shot in the back, but he also got what he deserved. You cannot make me believe Holt was going to change. He was not a good person, contrary to what he wanted Doc to believe. Doc has definitely shifted from being hell bent on revenge in Season 1 until now. I am not saying that he doesn't deserve to feel his life has a renewed purpose, but I am questioning his timing. Wynonna, Waverly, and the Team do not need redemption! They are making the best of the hand they have been dealt and fighting like hell to keep each other safe! There is still much work to be done!
Jody – This is a lot to unpack. I think the WE writers like to mess with us, A LOT. I also think my fellow "Pitters" will have lots of thoughts and my brain is a little fried, so am going to sit this one out 😊
Laura – Is Waverly still walking that Earp heir path? I think Wynonna was spot on in the Garden when she told Waverly that it's time they live their own lives for themselves, no more curse shit to worry about. Sadly for Wynonna, I think that's easier said than done because she's tied so much of herself up into being the Earp heir and making that fight that even if there is a chance and not having to live by the blood, she's finding it hard to see where that line is now. Waverly however will always help her family and friends but she doesn't fully seem to be doing it because of some call of duty as the Earp heir. Mostly just to make sure her loved ones are safe and she's trying to move forward in those relationships. I mean she just proposed to the love of her life for crying out loud! And I did, did I mention that already? Openly crying at the proposal scene. But Wynonna's idea right now of movement still has her in the middle of the Earp heir and fighting demons crap. Perhaps Wynonna is once again lost and isn't sure where the way out is but also not sure that there is a way out. This 'job' gives her life purpose like she's never had before, why would she willingly give that up even if she could. And I too do not see the world in black & white which means I'm not sure that she can give it up. Plus who the hell else is going to do it and do it...I wanted to say right but seems more on brand to say just getting the shit done.
Earpnado – To quote Nedley: "I have no fucking clue what's happening here". Every time I think I know what direction a character is going they surprise me. It's infuriating and 100% entertaining, and probably why we're all here. It does seem that Doc wanted to have a choice in how to handle his "revenants", and maybe he's pissed that Wynonna took that from him. To be fair, there were many times where his obsession with the Stone Witch interfered with Wynonna's ability to handle the actual Revenants, so it does seem that Wynonna wasn't far off when she said they are the same.
Office – Before I even go there, I need to talk about Wynonna shooting Holt in the back first. What. Was. That? Nicole Haught dying, being put in a frog, escaping the frog in a ball gown to put the beat down on a reaper – none of that was more shocking than Wynonna Earp shooting Holt in the back. It's a hard pill to swallow because it seems just so viscerally wrong. Not necessarily her shooting him, but shooting him after he'd lowered his gun and turned his back. But if I look at the sequence of events – she'd just been told it was the Clantons who wanted her baby, she'd just witnessed Nicole nearly dying at the hands of the Clantons, she thinks that the Clantons set fire to the homestead, a reaper was sent after her by the Clantons (and she said she could feel how much it hated her), Holt is threatening to shoot her babygirl when she shows up, Holt then declares himself the Clanton Heir (a word that clearly has meaning to Wynonna and comes with the same responsibility she has). She’s also tired of fighting but knows she can't afford to let her guard down. And I ask myself, would it have been any better if she had simply shot him in the chest right after Doc got him to lower his gun, or shot him in the chest when he still had his gun raised? I think so? But, why? If she was justified in dispatching him, then she's justified in dispatching him. Man, leave it to #WynonnaEarp to continually surprise us and go to so many different emotional places!!
As for redemption – I do believe in redemption; there are so many things so many of these characters have done that it's easy to say, "Well, that's unforgiveable." But, again, as someone who believes words have meaning, is it really 'unforgiveable' – like it can never be forgiven and therefore there is no redemption from it? Probably not.
I think the first step to redemption, of course, is changing your behavior. Doc seems ready to do that, Wynonna, not so much. But, as they talked out on the porch, maybe Doc has the luxury of that choice. I know that on the porch Doc said, "You have a choice, Wynonna!" That is in stark contrast, however, to what he said in the first episode of the series: "Sometimes, life chooses for us." Whether they like it or not, they live in a demon infested town and bad guys keep coming for them. Does that mean shooting someone in the back to protect your family is a bad thing or a good thing or both because you have no choice? And if you have no choice, is redemption even needed? Again, leave it to #WynonnaEarp to continually surprise us and go to so many different emotional places!!
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